Fighting against Homophobia is Every Human Rights Activist's  Business

A Talk with Sasan Ghahreman

Arsham Parsi

Translated by Ava

Would you please introduce “Sasan Ghahreman” to Cheraq readers?

Allow me to repeat what appears at the end of my third novel We Didn’t Tell the Children: I was born in Farvardin (March-April) of 1961 in Mashhad. Went to elementary school in Mashhad, Mozdooran (a military outpost between Mashad and Sarkhas), and Tehran; throughout my high school years I was a resident of Oroomieh. In this period (1974 -1979) I worked as an actor, playwright, and director in Khane-ye Farhang (Art and Culture Ministry), and Kargah-e Namayesh (National Radio and Television Broadcasting of Western Azarbaijan). This is where I first started to write, in the form of short stories, poetry, plays, screen plays and short interludes. In 1979 I began my studies initially in political science and eventually in theatre arts in University of Tehran. My studies were interrupted by the closing of the universities and remained incomplete. In the spring of 1983 I left Iran and have been a resident of Canada since the summer of 1984. Today I write, sing, manage the publishing house, Nashr e Farda and edit the bilingual online monthly publication Gozaar.

In Iran and in migration, as mentioned in [Bahram Ebrahimi’s] Workaholic, whether by force or choice I have occupied myself with various different trades and occupations, including carpentry, nursing, working as a postman, parking lot guard, public relations manager of two distributing and telephone companies, all beside publishing books and journals. I have published three novels (Fault, Café Renaissance, We Didn’t Tell the Children), three poetry collections (Green, Color, Twelve Narratives of Death), and a collection of critical essays. I have published and edited an academic book for the teaching of Farsi language and literature. I have acted in about 30 plays and directed about 5 or 6. I have a screenplay and a number of plays and short stories in my portfolio as well, and I have been working on a novel by the name of Coma in the last few years.

Is Sasan Ghahreman a human rights advocate, a writer, or a political activist?

Perhaps before all these, I would still have liked to be an actor on stage. Since I first became acquainted with theatre in my youth, I saw my whole future on the stage. I was also writing at that time. When the revolution happened, I was 18 and a professional actor in both senses; I had the experience and I was also gaining an income from it. But the revolution made me a political activist and took me to the realm of politics, and from then on politics became an important part of my life. With that came emigration and writing became my occupation. Although that was only in one sense since I was not able to rely on it as a source of income. So I was forced to look for other jobs, to break the curse of the breadwinner. In these years of immigration or exile, theatre has not abandoned me; or rather I have not abandoned it. Ultimately all these faces exist within me to some degree and I in them; it is in them that I exist. But maybe there is another way to respond to this question: political activism in the form of party politics and participation in political groups, that I have abandoned for years. It is not my kind of work. It isn’t my cup of tea. But as a writer or artist, how is it possible not to be a human rights advocate?

How does Sasan Ghahreman define “human rights”?

“Human rights” needs to have a clear definition; that human beings, of whatever color, race, ethnicity, nationality, culture, sexuality … must be free and equal to live a lifestyle of their choice, without harming or diminishing others. They must be given the same rights granted to the rest of civilization for the promotion of growth and development. One could leave the definition at that or expand on each point; speak of democratic rights, employment rights, education, travel, choice, love, etc. There was a time when concepts such as “freedom” and “human rights” existed separately from, and even clashed with, concepts like “democratic rights” and “political independence”. At times one was priority over the others. But I believe that “human rights” is based on and rooted in all these concepts, and we must not allow political games, slogans or other forces of division to limit its definition. “Human rights” means the humanity of humanity. Life. Air.

Based on this, should we recognize the rights of Iranian queers as human rights? I ask so that we can direct our discussion to this topic.

Well, of course. That is natural and clear. I understand your reason for asking this question. There are many human rights advocates who are, unfortunately, still preoccupied by the drawing of lines. In my opinion this attitude is rooted in two incorrect assumptions. First, it is a continuation of the same old “if”s, “but”s and classifications that divide people in to different categories and with it their needs and rights. There was a time when we said “let’s achieve political and economic independence first, then we’ll fight for freedom” (or the optimists among us thought that freedom would be gradually achieved on its own). Even while women were being aggressively intimidated and assaulted by slogans like: “either hijab or a bash on the head”, there was still talk of “first…”. There was always a priority to be addressed “first”, and because of that many other issues were sacrificed. Even today some human rights activists value certain rights more than others, depending on which social group they are applied to. I have seen and heard that even you defenders of queer rights sometimes try to present statistics to show, for example, that about 7% of any society is made up of homosexuals, so you may use the statistic to draw people’s attention to the rights of this population group. This method may be necessary for a society that is relatively lacking in terms of human rights awareness. But human rights are the rights of every human being, any human being; whether 7% or 0.001%. A woman amongst men, a man amongst women, a homosexual amongst millions of heterosexuals is still a human being with the same needs and rights. That person must have the same social conditions desired by all people in society. The second cause is rooted in antiquated beliefs, biases and ignorance. And again, we see how many human rights activists, writers, artists, journalist, etc still see homosexuality as a deviation and a sickness and therefore do not recognize the full "human" rights of the queer community. We face challenging circumstances and difficult work. I say "we" so as to clarify that it will not only be women fighting for women's rights, only Kurds fighting for Kurdish rights, only homosexuals fighting for queer rights. These barriers must be lifted from the path of our social development, our "human" development, by all of us. We must do it together.

So in your opinion, this mentality explains the lack of initiative shown by many human-rights activists in relation to queer rights; despite the fact that many of these individuals have taken active part in countless struggles for the promotion of peace and equality.

Yes. This is exactly what I wanted to point out. Some of these colleagues still carry with them traditional beliefs when it comes to these issues; some are still uncomfortable and ashamed to discuss it! Some say “society is still not ready” for the discussion of these issues, or they fear cooperation with the gay rights movement will alienate their own supporters. And if one day some of these people gain power and influence, they will refuse to grant equal rights to certain social groups including the queers community. But “human rights” cannot be partial and one cannot limit its struggle with “ifs”, “buts” and other exemptions.

Could there possibly be other reasons to explain their attitude?

Well yes. Perhaps there are other reasons. But in my opinion these two reasons are the most important. But this is assuming that these activists act as independent individuals with independent and clear intentions, not with temporary or personal motivations. In that case one must look at the activism in a new light.  

In your opinion how homophobia should be confronted?

This struggle has two phases. In phase one, it should be addressed in the same way we must struggle against any prejudice in society based on a mentality of “majority/minority” and “self/other”. In phase two, one must go beyond this and pay attention to the fact that in many societies, including Iran, women for example are not in the majority, or children are given little importance. In a patriarchal, chauvinist, and classist society, we must struggle against homophobia in the same way we struggle against discrimination against women, children, or immigrants; by fighting tradition, prejudice, ignorance. In general, we must work on educating and raising social awareness by any means possible, especially the education of civil society activists and those who work in human rights, peace engagement, and social movements. But this issue goes beyond generalization. The struggle towards awareness demands clear and planned methodology. Like any other, this movement needs organization, choice of tactic, structured steps, and a long-term strategy. It must be clarified for the society what homosexuality is; it must be clarified that blind traditions lack foundation. In other words, the issue must be broken down and detached from everything that has categorized it as a taboo; through education and awareness-raising; by drawing support from trustworthy individuals in society. By officially recognizing queer rights and supporting queer rights through a well-planned social movement that is credible and just. By supporting and cooperating with other movements. One can learn and emulate from methods that have previously been used with success by other movements.

      But don’t you think that circumstances in the present Iranian society are more complicated and the conditions for the steps you outline are perhaps difficult to achieve? I mean that queers must struggle on two fronts; educating and attracting support from activists or other social movements is very difficult for us. The student movement in Iran may very easily sympathize and empathize with the women’s movement or the labour movement, but it doesn’t respond in the same way to gay rights.

This is completely correct. It can even be said that homosexuals must struggle on not two, but many fronts. From family to friends, from acquaintances to society. And in society they must struggle with shortcomings of a despotic and reactionary government on the one hand, with the dominance of tradition and blind prejudices on the other, and with scepticism, opportunism, ignorance, and lack of education within collaborating movements on the other. It is difficult, very difficult, but as Galileo says, “after all, it turns”, and it won’t be long before the revolution of the earth becomes a belief upheld by all. Of course this will happen on the shoulders of pained bodies and streams of blood and countless agonies. Regardless of the cost, the fact remains that a big section of the population suffers from ignorance on this issue and a big section, especially fathers and mothers, families and friends, seek to close their eyes to the truth. This wall must be lifted only through awareness, awareness, and awareness. This is a task for all of us. 

The phrase “degarbashan e jensy” (“queer” in Farsi) is a new phrase this organization has adopted and put to use. What do you think of this phrase?

I have heard and read bits and pieces of debates and opinions about this. I have seen that some have not approved of this choice and seen it as a way to label the “other”. I believe this is an honest and valid definition. I mean I think that in choosing this phrase, you had the collective sense of the term in mind, not its cultural or natural explanation. In this day and age, homosexuals are a statistical minority within a society that views heterosexuality as the prototype, and dominates this belief through all its political, economic, legal, and cultural laws. I think you have wanted to use this as a tactic to tell society that one must set aside the reliance on this supposed truth and respect the rights of the “other”. It’s obvious that I, a Middle Eastern immigrant, am the “other” in a society of white European majority. But I am human and have equal rights. For the defence of my own rights and that of my fellowmen, I can identify with terms such as “Iranian”, “coloured”, “Muslims”, or more generally “non-European”. Whatever term I call myself, I am the “other” in this society. I guess that you also, before having wanted to accept your “otherness”, attached yourself to the societal norm or maybe you saw yourself through the lens of traditional attitudes and negative cultural connotations. Maybe one could find more appropriate terms. But your reason behind this choice is valid and I think it is a good choice in the first phase of the struggle.


 

When introducing yourself, you mentioned your work as the editor of Gozaar. Would you like to talk about this publication? Is your point of view observed in Gozaar, a journal of human rights and democracy?
            I want to thank you for posing this question. There have been stereotypes and false advertising spread around about Gozaar and I value any opportunity to clarify things. Gozaar is a bilingual publication (Farsi-English) and its general intent is analysis and commentary on social and human rights issues, including the exchange of view-points about deepening and spreading democracy and other related discussions. There have been 15 issues published to date. During these 15 months, writings by distinguished colleagues with different points of view have been published in Gozaar, adding to its reputation. The list of names of those who have written articles or been part of interviews published in Gozaar is extensive. It includes Shirin Ebadi, Simin Behbahani,
Eisy Saharkhiz, Masood Noghrehkar, Hadi Khorsandy, Ahmad Sakhavarz, Abdollah Momeni, Ali Afshari, Akbar Atri, Mehrdad Darvishpour, Mehrdad Mashayekhi, Mohsen Sazgara, Mehrangiz Kar, Niloufar Beyzaie, Lili Pourzand, Fariba Davoodi Mohajer, Mahnaz Afkhami, Majid Mohammadi, Faraj Sarkoohi, Mansour Pouyan, Abbas Maroofi, Arash Abadi, and many others including you – Arsham Parsi – and other friends with pen names. We have about half a million clicks registered monthly on the site from readers across the world, more than half of them living in Iran who despite government filtering of websites gain access to the site. Gozaar’s financial source is part of the budget set aside about two years ago by the Dutch parliament, through suggestions of Mrs. Farah Karimi, a Green Party member of parliament, for the expansion of independent Iranian media. Other media outlets such as Rooz, Radio Zamaneh, Shahrzad News and Zigzag have been created with the support of this budget and other non-government European sources. Gozaar’s budget was paid due to a request by a non-governmental agency called Freedom House which is responsible for its management and publication. Freedom House is one of the oldest American non-governmental organizations working in the fields of human rights, democracy and freedom, promoting western liberal democracy. Its founder was Eleanor Roosevelt - one of the earliest founders and promoters of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the chair of the United Nation’s first Human Rights Commission.

I find it necessary to mention that throughout Gozaar’s publication, besides the generosity and support of writers, journalists, social activists and renowned artists inside and outside the country, negative advertisement has been spread about the journal. These advertisements, with an intent to destroy the publication, have suggested connections between various sources of Gozaar with Freedom House and Freedom House with the current conservative government of America, accusing the journal of endorsing regime change and an attack on Iran. There is no need to explain that a short and unmotivated look at the published articles in Gozaar proves the antithesis of these rumours. The goal and plan of Gozaar has been to provide a platform for dialogue and exchange of opinion and the publication of differing views; all of this of course in the framework of respect of human rights, peace, freedom of speech, and democracy. Freedom House was established towards the end of WWII to support western democracy in the face of fascist rulers and to support victims of war from the time of McCarthyism till today. It has disagreed with the rule of conservatism and the limiting of freedom in America and the world, regardless of whether it is committed by the right or the left. In general it has been and is an outlet for liberalism and western democracy. In fact the first publication of Gozaar coincided with the publication of an open letter by Freedom House’s Board of Directors addressing George Bush, strongly protesting the government’s policies in Iraq, the Guantanamo persecutions, and the threats to individual freedom within America, clearly saying that “these actions have devalued America’s commitment to democracy and human rights and disgraced it in the face of the world”. But the project of Gozaar is not a platform for the beliefs of Freedom House. It is rather an independent project featuring dialogue and exchange of views amongst Iranian activists and analysts, seeking to find solutions to social problems and trying to build social progress in Iran.

The initial plan was that every issue of Gozaar would be designed around one particular feature or theme. When it came to sexual issues and discrimination, we had a piece on Iranian homosexuals and bisexuals and published an interview with you. Since Gozaar is bilingual, whether an article is originally written in Farsi or English it is published in both languages. So it has been able to have a clear and positive impact by reaching the voice of Iranian intellectuals, analysts and activists to the ears of western analysts, sociologists and politicians. From January Gozaar will no longer be a monthly journal and instead becomes a website, and our attention will be directed to subjects with respect to education on principles, conventions and various aspect of civic society. Naturally in this framework, discussions in the field of queer rights will find their place alongside other societal groups.

Thank you. Hope in future issues of Cheraq we’ll see more of your writing, poetry and short-fiction.